Question about the Surveillance State


A friend writes:

“Out of interest I understand from a colleague that there is an article today in either the Guardian or Telegraph – loosely connected to the Stephen Lawrence undercover police scenario – that exposes the fact that the police are covertly monitoring 9,000 people in the UK currently with a new unit:

“The National Domestic Extremist Unit.

“This unit apparently monitors a broad spectrum of people who object in one way or another to big brother and the one world order state.

“Could we find out if we are on it and demand excerpt from the files with a freedom of information request?”

15 thoughts on “Question about the Surveillance State

  1. 9,000 people isn’t that many – but if it turns out to be groups, clubs, unions, organisations etc. then I’d guess we are certainly being watched.

    Something very sinister is happening to this country. Plod and politicians too are all far too cocky and confident about their roles and positions in society. And that cannot be good news. A for instance with regard to plod:

    On Monday morning my wife and I called in at a manned police station (took a lot of finding) to ask a member of the plod-brigade to verify that a copy we’d made of our son’s passport was correct. This was in accordance with the instructions printed off from plod’s own web page. (We needed police clearance so that our 17 year old could do work-experience in a hospital – a process which can take up to 6 weeks)

    Anyway, Plod 1, manning the counter, was engaged in conversation with Plod 2. Neither one of whom acknowledged our arrival. I placed both the original and the copy on the counter waiting to ask if they could verify that it was indeed a true copy.

    They continued chatting for a minimum of 5 minutes (which seemed more like 15 to us). Plod 1, eventually turned to us but before I’d finished asking the question, he smiled with a look of intense pleasure and all the while shaking his head saying, ‘Sorry, we don’t do that for the public anymore. You should find a solicitor to sign it’.

    I told him we’d have to pay a solicitor and that in any event, we’d only printed the form off the day before and it’s written quite clearly there that the police are listed amongst those people who are able to sign.

    ‘I don’t care what it says there,’ said he; ‘I’m not advised to sign anything for the public.’ He then asked Plod 2 if he’d sign. Plod 2, also smiled – the way a cat does before eating into a still living mouse – shook his head in disbelief at the sight of two members of the general public who could still be so out of touch with reality.

    Not once were we addressed formally let alone respectfully.

    We left, crossed the street and had a local solicitor do the signing in less than 10 minutes. His receptionist was great. He was polite, smiling and didn’t charge a penny. All’s well that ends well – other than it’s not all kicked off yet, so let’s allow the hare sit a spell before deciding how well shall we?

    Make of all that what you will folks. I’m very happy to supply full details to anyone interested; including the name of a really decent sort – a gentleman who also happens to be a solicitor.

    • A pretty common experience from my own point of view when dealing with any type of state personnel. It’s been like this throughout my entire adult life.

      Barely concealed public contempt at best, direct personal spitefulness at worst.

      There is a power disparity because obviously they already have your custom, unlike the commercial sector who still, in many cases, have to win your custom to get paid.

      What are the odds of a police officer being disciplined for being out-of-order? Zero…

  2. When I began reading this, I guessed what the outcome would be almost immediately.

    The point to take away is that the these all-powerful state organisations want power but not responsibility.

    They will happily force their way into your house on the basis of some flimsy “evidence”, but run for cover when confronted with the possibility that someone may hold them to account.

    There was a (very) remote chance that validating your passport might come back to haunt them later – so they took the “safe” option.

  3. I had the great good fortune to work for the National Bus Company as a bus driver back in the 70’s, so I have experienced life on both sides of the fence, as it were. We had an affinity with anyone else who wore uniform and was employed by the State. The company was run solely for the benefit of the workforce, and the public were regarded as a troublesome intrusion and treated with condescension if not outright contempt. It was very much ‘Them’ (the common plebs) vs ‘Us’ (we work for the GOVERNMENT). This mindset has expanded beyond all hope since those golden days.
    I wonder what the psychologists make of it? (I was fired for refusing to join the Union by the way).

    • Desmond Morris writes about in-groups, out-groups and subgroups in the Human Zoo. Wikipedia has a nice entry on ‘groupthink’.

      All this is compounded by the culture of narcissistic, exaggerated self-worth entitlement and perceived victimhood, spurred on by unions and radical politics throughout the state sector.

      Also, Steve Moxon writes:
      “A truly ‘progressive’ political project requires us first of all to acknowledge the evolved psychology of the human creature, warts and all…….We just need to see life as the game that it is and that we all play—just like at school, the game is compulsory. We need to play by the rules we have inherited. We can better organise our societies to be congruent with this, so that we improve equitability; but we can’t just make up the rules as we go along or rewrite the rule-book to suit the fads and intellectual prejudices of the time.”

  4. Hugo: It seems that you left the job before you’d allowed them to hook you with the ‘pension package’ lure. Which is the very thing that keeps most decent cops doing the job when they know full well just how much political bungling and tinkering has changed the old values attached to the force.

    Witness the Lawrence saga and the ongoing, highly publicised, police activity on behalf of the Lawrence family compared to the total lack of publicity given to the plight of say, the 85 year old white lady who was bullied by plod, handcuffed, arrested and carted off immediately following the on-street butchering by Muslims of the unfortunate Lee Digby. They only managed to ‘wing’ the bloody butchers but successfully ringed an old lady. Good lads and lasses aren’t they? I bet their mothers are proud.

    I did think about making a formal complaint concerning my recent experience with plod but concluded it would be a waste of time. It would probably be biased reporting against me anyway and it would be so easy to make me appear a white trouble-maker. I wouldn’t have cared at all of course if the two cops had been busy but the place was completely empty. They made it quite clear that any interruption to their conversation would not wash well.

    No one cares anymore Hugo. Society at large is slowly sleep-walking into a nightmare. The vast majority of ordinary people, even if they knew what was about to break loose, have little idea how to defend themselves let alone their communities. They’re placing far too much trust in the government’s ability to control mob-violence once the for certain civil unrest kicks off. They’ve got the guns to control it of course but not the skill levels to control it before mayhem and all hell breaks loose. One might have thought that a trickle of blood running down the street would have been enough to wake the dozing English but no, they insist on seeing rivers.

    Many times previously on this site I’ve said how I think that food-shortages will be the trigger. Look out for signs of it happening. Threats of strikes, commercial road-fuel shortages, poisoned food supplies, banks once again collapsing, etc. Plans are already in place to have every member of my family out of the UK in less than 14 days. That’s how seriously I’m taking it.

    Anyway. Murray’s still in and the BGP can be seen on tele tomorrow.

  5. Sorry Nick, I missed your post. I like what you write and this Steven Moxon chap seems very much on the ball. I’ve just printed it in fact.

    Sorry if I seem so gloomy about all this. After many decades of seeing your country slipping further and further down the world-rankings does this to a man. Perhaps the ladies see things differently. Wouldn’t know myself because they never seem to want to talk about winning… or losing.

    • But your ‘doom scenario’ could be an accurate evaluation. Who knows where things will go from here? And it’s always good to have a backup plan in case things go tits-up.

  6. When I was ‘on the buses’ we (state employees) didn’t constitute a separate group so much as a separate (and superior) class from and to ‘ordinary people’ (how’s that for tortured syntax?). It’s hard to explain unless you’ve lived it, but it has certainly given me an insight into the existence of a ‘political class’. John Warren writes “Plans are already in place to have every member of my family out of the UK in less than 14 days. That’s how seriously I’m taking it.”. Well, I started getting my money out in 1999, and in 2007 I obtained permanent residence in the United States. Mind you, the way Obama’s going it’s not going to be much better over there before long. But as Alexis de Tocqueville said, America’s great strength is its ability to repair its errors; I have just read that Ohio is about to become the thirteenth State to ban speed cameras and red light cameras, and Nevada has raised the speed limit to 85 mph. And an increasing number of States do not require motorcyclists to wear crash helmets. Small things, maybe, but can you see that happening here in the EU?

    • Hugo. My thoughts of a ‘political class’ would be people who knowingly lack the merits to rise up the dominance hierarchy and therefore attempt to subvert it for their own advancement regardless of the social consequences.

      Unions are in effect a way of protecting shoddy workers from being replaced by more talented ones. Unearned privilege has to be defended at all costs – hence their tendency to stick together like glue.

  7. That’s not quite what I mean – they, the government and all who work for them, are a class of people quite separate from ordinary people like you and me. We are merely an underclass getting in the way of their Utopian vision.

    • “We are merely an underclass getting in the way of their Utopian vision.”

      Although we do pay all of their bills…

  8. Sadly, I feel obliged to second both your comments Peter.

    For a Monday morning starter however: Can you, in your wildest dreams, ever imagine plod preventing two Muslim males from walking London streets because the houses are predominantly occupied by Christians who might just turn nasty should they noticed them walking by? I feel fairly confident they’d never do that but might instead offer them an escort to where it was they wanted to go.

    We have now lost the right to fee speech and now very obviously lost our liberty to roam our capital city at times of our own choosing. Any man who calls himself a libertarian but doesn’t seem to give a damn about the liberty to walk the streets seems to be a rather odd sort to me. But then again I started out labouring in a stone quarry at age 15 – and still got the scars to prove it. I was lucky though, my best pal had a leg chopped off.

    Quickly left all that behind me however but remain grateful for the many really useful lessons learned. The ignorant having their story being one.

    What, in God’s name, gives the present generations, the ones that have managed so swiftly to lose an Empire, the right to restrict freedoms handed down by the generations that built one? What is it that makes them think that their countless arse-dwelling student days allow them to think they know so much more about business and life in general than the Victorians?

    They might all own a college degree or two but for me, at least, they don’t seem half so bright and are certainly very much lazier. Had there been a lick of common sense between our current crop of leaders the country wouldn’t be in this current dreadful situation. All the proof needed is out there for those who care to look.

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