Comment re Sean Gabb on UKIP

by Vabadus

Very good article, although I disagree with your reasons for voting Conservative in 2015; I implore you to rethink your intention.

I genuinely believe there is not a cigarette paper between the three arsecheeks of the same backside — Lib-Lab-Con. Since it is highly unlikely that UKIP will form a majority government in the foreseeable future, the way Nigel Farage will succeed is by forcing the Non-Conservative Party to adopt some its core policies. I will focus on this because it is a more realistic possibility than UKIP gaining enough MPs to hold the balance of power and form a coalition with the Conservatives (although this should not be ruled out).

Until or unless the Conservative Party is destroyed, UKIP’s role is push it rightwards. It can only do so if it poses a significant threat to a Tory majority by draining a considerable amount of its grassroots support. It also means, regrettably, that the Labour Party has to be strong; the Conservatives have to be attacked by both sides of the political spectrum. Whatever our doubts about David Cameron’s trustworthiness, there would be no promise of a referendum on EU membership were it not for UKIP’s electoral strength.

We can only continue to threaten the Conservatives and force them to copy and paste important elements of UKIP’s manifesto by voting UKIP in all elections. By no means should we allow the Conservatives to believe they are being given the green light, which is how voting for them under any conditions will be interpreted, however disingenuously. If Labour wins the next General Election because of UKIP, the Cons will have even more reason to fret and puts its policies and direction under heavy scrutiny; with some hope, it is conceivable that David Cameron will quit too. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better.

It is for this reason that I am leaning towards opposition to Scottish independence — the Labour Party will never win a General Election again, so the Conservative Party will be free to pursue its social-democratic agenda without fear of losing; UKIP would then be weakened or simply fade into obscurity.

It is the Conservative Party, not Labour, that we need to attack. Voting for them is counter-productive, pointless, and inexcusable.



  • Although a Tory voter my entire life, I’m broadly agree with this statement. Why indeed should we keep voting into power people who seem so bent on destroying the very way of life most of us have enjoyed for decades and still, even today, hold dear?

    I’ll go back again to pointing out (and I understand how boring it must sound) the obvious but for some reason invisible fly in everyone’s ointment; including every politician of the recent past and of course the shameless ones who are currently raking in loads of lovely tax-payer cash:

    This nation of ours is not just flat broke, it is very deeply and gravely in debt. No nation in the history of the world has ever recovered from such high levels of debt without some major catastrophe overtaking it. War at worse but more often a massive currency devaluation with rampant unemployment and rapidly declining living standards.

    Sadly the US is in the same situation, if not worse, so we’ll not be able to go to them this time with our begging bowls.

    The day the UK’s shit hits the fan is rapidly approaching but that day will not be known until the money printing finally stops. The Americans have just started another massive printing run (dis-owning their own constitution by doing so) and so have we. Every debtor knows though that borrowing more when you’re assets can no longer bail you out of the jail is not a terribly sensible thing to be doing.

    Some politicians know the truth but continue to live the lie. A few know the score but need quick cash in order to survive the coming crash. Most are simply too stupid to know anything but how to worm their way into professional politicking.

    So perhaps Vabadus, those facts might just be the things that will at last drive it into voter’s heads that a drastic change in our government’s financial and social policy is needed and that a new broom will always sweep cleaner than a worn out one. Another way of looking at things I suppose

    Is UKIP that new broom? I’ve no idea but continue to live in hope.

  • With Scotland gone I don’t think it follows that the Tories become an eternal shoo-in. They will no longer have the cover of “it’s us or Labour” and will be open to hopefully savage attack and retaliation for their years and decades of brazen betrayal..

  • It seems so simple to me, I hesitate to say this.

    Vote for the party that best serves your needs, and let the chips fall where they may.

    Because . it . is . the . right . thing . to . do

  • All very true!

    I would not presume to advise Sean how to vote next year, but for myself the choice will be between not voting at all or supporting UKIP again.

    The first option is something that has its own merits and is probably worth a discussion of its own at some other time.

    But perhaps I will allow myself a few words about the second option. Putting aside the obviously socialist Labour and Liberal parties and their various lookalikes, one is left with a choice between UKIP and the Conservatives.

    If one votes for the latter, one is supporting a party that:

    – is quite content for a bloated state to comsume over 50% of national income
    – is most unlikely to make any changes to the UK’s relationship with Europe even if there is a vote in 2017
    – is committed to 1970s style corporatism
    – fully supports a social democratic welfare – warfare state
    – will extend censorship and surveillance
    – will continue the Labour-coalition policy of creating new victimless crimes
    – will adhere to no consistent ethical principles, apart from trying to please tabloid headline writers
    – will continue to erode free enterprise with an expanding web of regulation
    – in all likelihood will increase taxation in future as failing state institutions demand more resources
    – will not control immigration
    – will certainly extend current nanny state interference in people’s private lives

    Personally, I don’t find any of this very appealing. Yet this is what we will get from a Conservative majority government.

    Now it may be that voting UKIP will not lead things to take a course that is any better. But there is at least a chance that it will. And that is good enough for me.

    • I am wavering. Because I’m told UKIP has some chance of winning in Dover next year, I may well throw the Tories over.

  • David McDonagh

    What we need to attack is false or immoral ideas, Sean. A special attack on the Conservatives looks silly to me.

    But a use of democracy to further the cause of liberty looks a long way off today as the people need first of all to be converted.

  • One thing I cannot fathom is why any intelligent person who is vehemently opposed to our membership of the EU would even consider voting for a party which has repeatedly stated that it will NEVER contemplate such a move.
    It’s the craziest thing I ever heard.

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